CEN/TC304/WG2 N346R
Date: 1994-06-14
1 Opening of the meeting
The Convener for this meeting, Keld Simonsen, welcomed the
participants and opened the meeting.
2 Roll call of members
AT Gerhard Budin secretary
DK Keld Simonsen chair
FI Klaas Ruppel
GB Graham Dixon
GR Evangelos Melagrakis
IE Michael Everson
IS Guðlaug Richter (observer on Wednesday)
SE Olle Järnefors
SE Sten Lindberg (observer on Wednesday)
SE Wolf Arfvidson (observer on Thursday)
3 Selection of Chair and secretary
Keld Simonsen is selected chair of the meeting and Gerhard Budin is
selected secretary of the meeting.
4 Adoption of the agenda and identification of papers to the
agenda
The agenda was adopted as presented in this report.
The following documents were identified and allocated to agenda items:
NR 23, NR 31 and 34, NR 45, N 316 N 326 to item 6.1
NR 37 to item 7.2
NR 5, NR 7 NR 25,NR 40, NR 45, N 248 to 8
5 Confirmation of minutes of the fourth meeting (N 284)
The minutes of the last meeting were adopted. The minutes of the
last TC 304 meeting were included in the consideration (N 295).
These minutes were adopted exept one item: the following change
was proposed, to be discussed by TC 304: 4.1.2: it should read
after the colon: "an ENV covering the registration of cultural
requirements and a TR containing a collection of cultural
elements".
6 Review of action items from the fourth meeting and review
of homework
item 1: new draft: NR 23 was done
item 2: narrative version of collection: NR 37 was done
item 3: Glyph presentations not yet available, but progress was
achieved
item 4: Polytonic Greek is available
item 5: removal of inconsistencies in N 248: still open, but NR
45 is available
item 6: language selection: is an open issue
item 7: homework was done enquiring on CEC requirements N 315,
N 316 + answer received NR 7
evaluation of result closes this action item and opens a
new action item, to follow up on N 315, N 316
item 8: enquiry of languages to be covered was done - forwarded
to TC 304
item 9: done
item 10: open
6.1 Liaison reports
Keld Simonsen reports from JTC 1/SC 22/ WG 15. This working group
is interested in our registry and interested in N 326.
It is recommended to X/Open to investigate the possibilities of establishing liaison to this working group (and to TC 304). NR 34 concerning locale registry is not considered for lack of time.
7 Projects 2.1 Registration standard for cultural elements and 2.2 Cultural elements
7.1 Registration standard for cultural elements
NR 23 is the new draft ENV. It is intended by the TC that this
document will be circulated for PQ in October. Discussion on the
document is opened. The working group appreciates the work of
the project editor improving the user-friendliness of this
document.
It is decided to include the term "profile" to be defined in chapter 3. The project editor is asked to prepare a draft informative annex explaining 6.2 (page 8/9) as a guideline for users. It is decided that items 26 and 27 are deleted. Examples should be given (about 2: Danish and Irish). The INSTA document on Nordic cultural requirements should be referred to. Informative annexes will include examples of filled in forms both in POSIX and in natural language (action item for Michael Everson). If short forms (names) are not available, full forms are the default.
For languages to be included the ISO 639 mechanism (including registration for those not included) is to be used.
Page 8 : first sentence in item 1: ... specification shall... .. and may also do so in other languages.
It is decided to include a clause stipulating that a POSIX locale specification must also be made available in natural language, but not vice versa. A pointer (registration number) between the two presentations must be included. It is still an open issue to decide which version will have priority in case of conflict.
The question is whether hard copy registration should be included and in which form the electronic file is to be sent. The proposal to limit it to ISO 646 only is rejected by several members of the group. It is an open issue in which form the information should be transmitted. Is it necessary to identify any glyph as a specific character? Action item on the members on how to collect narrative information in electronic form.
issues list:
1. yes, POSIX can be used
2. JTC 1 members to be sponsoring authorities? still open
3. free form to be included, yes
4. appeal procedures, open
5. POSIX registration examples
6. The form of ENV is o.k.
7. SC 22/WG 20 naming: still open
Action items:
open action items (issues) continued
Action item on the members on how to collect narrative
information in electronic form.
Action item on Keld Simonsen and Michael Everson for proposing a registration
identification scheme.
Action item on Michael Everson for editorial clarification of the text and on everybody to make suggestions
Annex A is accepted as normative. Current annexes A,B and C will be combined into one annex.
This draft (no. 5) will be sent to X/Open for comments and information.
The next draft (no. 6) is to be finalized via e-mail by the group and sent out before October for TC enquiry. After that the next working group meeting will discuss and incorporate the comments received for finalizing the document for further procedures.
7.2 Collection of national cultural elements
Michael Everson reports on NR 37. Faults in POSIX specification have
been detected.
Action item on Keld Simonsen and Michael Everson to collect these faults and submit them to appropriate committees.
Action item on Michael Everson to align the format with the draft document project 2.1
After these items are done: Action item on the working group commenting NR 37 concerning format and contents.
A category "commonly used characters" for each language locale should be added.
Guidelines will be needed for filling in (see INSTA document).
8 Project 11: Character repertoires for natural languages
Action item: The new editor is asked to prepare an issues list
and a new draft.
Michael Everson proposes a new issue: scope of this project: indigenous languages of Europe, together with a geographical definition of Europe
This discussion on scope and purpose of this project was started. It is proposed to include "indigenous" languages of Europe only. Languages of immigrants would be excluded. This might become a separate project later.
Most members of the working group express their opinion that the project is important and should continue as foreseen.
Vote: should we continue with the project as planned without
project team?
5 vote yes, 1 abstention
Consensus concerning the scope: native European (autochthonous/indigenous) languages
Action item on Michael Everson: to propose a name of the document
Action item on the working group and open issue: to comment on geographical definition of Europe as proposed:
what is Europe: delete Greenland, exclude Anatolia
plus a sentence: since a part of Turkey is in Europe, Anatolia
is included. Due to the relationship of Greenland to Denmark,
Greenland is included.
Geographically speaking Georgia is often not included, but due
to its importance to Europe it is included.
9 Homework until the next meeting
Action items as listed above:
1 Report to TC 304: The minutes of last meeting were adopted exept one item: the following change was proposed, to be discussed by TC 304: 4.1.2: it should read after the colon: "an ENV covering the registration of cultural requirements and a TR containing a collection of cultural elements".
2 item 3 of last meeting: Glyph presentations to be provided
3 item 5 of last meeting: removal of inconsistencies in N 248:
still open, but NR 45 is available
4 item 6 of last meeting: language selection: is an open issue
5 item 10 of last meeting: open
6 The P 2.1 project editor is asked to prepare a draft
informative annex explaining 6.2 (page 8/9) as a guideline for
users.
7 Everson to provide Informative annexes including examples of
filled in forms both in POSIX and in natural language.
8 Action item on the members on how to collect narrative
information in electronic form.
9 on Thorvadour: from last meeting: are JTC 1 members allowed to
be sponsoring authorities? still open
10 from last meeting: the question of appeal procedures is still
open
11 POSIX registration examples still needed
12 JTC 1/SC 22/WG 20 naming: still open
13 Action item on the members on how to collect narrative
information in electronic form.
14 Action item on Keld Simonsen and Michael Everson for proposing a
registration identification scheme.
15 Action item on Michael Everson for editorial clarification of the
text and on everybody to make suggestions
16 Action item on Keld Simonsen and Michael Everson to collect corrections of
POSIX specification and submit them to appropriate committees.
17 Action item on Everson to align the format with the draft
document project 2.1
18 After completion of the previous ones: Action item on the
working group and member bodies commenting NR 37 concerning
format and contents.
19 Action item: The new P 11 editor is asked to prepare an
issues list and a new draft.
20 Action item on Michael Everson: to propose a name of the document
21 Action item on the working group and open issue: to comment
on geographical definition of Europe as proposed (see above)
10 Date of the next meeting
6 hours at the next meeting week
11 Any other business
None
12 Closure of meeting
Keld Simonsen thanked the participants and closed the meeting.